The MCU is taking fans into new territory with Secret Invasion, an espionage thriller that brings Samuel L. Jackson’s Nick Fury back to Earth when an unexpected rebellion, led by Kinglsey Ben-Adir’s Gravik, arises. Leader of this Skrull uprising, Gravik is an antagonist unlike the planet-destroying Titans we’ve seen before, and during the press junket, Collider’s Perri Nemiroff sat down with Ben-Adir to pick his brain on Gravik’s dark motivations.

With news of a hidden takeover, Fury returns from his cosmic engagements in Secret Invasion to reunite with old friends and colleagues including Talos (Ben Mendelsohn), Everett Ross (Martin Freeman), and Maria Hill (Cobie Smulders). A Skrull hellbent on revenge for “what he’s been through,” Gravik is a ruthless adversary looking to take control of the planet. Fury’s dealt with intergalactic threats before, but the Skrulls’ unique ability to shapeshift makes it impossible to trust anyone. This paranoia-filled series also welcomes Olivia Colman and Emilia Clarke to the MCU, and sees Don Cheadle reprising the role of Rhodey, too.
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According to Ben-Adir in his conversation with Perri, Gravik will prove to be a fearsome enemy. They discuss what it is about the character that makes him so dangerous, what motivates his rage, and the real-life people who informed his performance. Is Gravik redeemable or even, perhaps, relatable? Check out the full interview in the video above or the transcript below to find out!

Image via Disney+

PERRI NEMIROFF: I was watching another interview you did and you said that Gravik is a guy who feels no love for anyone.

KINGSLEY BEN-ADIR: Did I say that? Yeah, I think that’s true.

If he feels no love for anyone …

BEN-ADIR: Maybe himself.

That might answer my question! What do you think drives him to fight to get what he wants, or is it just revenge and revenge alone at this point?

BEN-ADIR: I think it’s seeing the pain that he feels in the eyes of other people.

That’s cruel.

BEN-ADIR: I think as foul a feeling as he has about himself and what he’s been through, he needs Nick and Talos to feel, too. And actually, I think the first couple of episodes, now that I think about it and now that I’ve seen it, and it was definitely evident in reading the script, is that it is about wanting them to experience the pain that he feels they’re partly responsible for at least. And that kind of carries through. He’s not just trying to take over everything. He wants them to see him doing it.

I have noticed that, and it crumbles my heart into a million pieces.

BEN-ADIR: It makes it darker, right?

This is easily one of the darkest Marvel shows or movies I have ever seen, and it’s largely because of what Gravik, I think, is all about at this point.

BEN-ADIR: Yeah, because as soon as that spreads out to the cause or the who’s right, it’s really personal and I think something much more.

Image via Disney+

Going back to the idea that he is a guy who feels no love, who do you think the last person he loved was?

BEN-ADIR: It’s a good question. Well, there were iterations early on where there were scenes that maybe didn’t make the cut, or parts of the backstory where he did have — well, yeah, he had a family, and yeah, at what point did it shift? I think, realistically speaking, it has to have been a long time since he has felt – so maybe when he was a kid. Maybe it was like before he got – I don’t know. But yeah, I don’t think he arrived there last week. I think it’s been a while.

He’s also someone who comes across as extremely confident in himself and his plan. When the show first opens up, do you think he thinks he has any weakness?

BEN-ADIR: No, I think he thinks the ultimate weakness is trust in other people or believing that there is any good in anyone. So, the only weakness he might have felt he had, he’s dismissed. It’s no one.

Dude, this is the darkest headspace ever.

BEN-ADIR: This was the kind of stuff I was like, “Well, it has to be this, right? Otherwise, he’s not a villain.” You have to want Fury to finish him, and so you go, “Well, these choices are maybe better than …” I think so.

He is a villain. He is a bad guy doing bad things. But he does seem like the type of villain where his intentions will not necessarily be justified, but at least make sure the audience understands …

BEN-ADIR: You’re gonna understand. By the end, you’ll know exactly where he’s coming from and how he’s got there, and why he feels the way he does, but whether you think that’s right or wrong, it’s kind of up to the person.

With that mentality, does he have any admirable assets? Even if they were ultimately warped and turn him into the villain that he is now, is there anything along the way that’s been admirable about him?

BEN-ADIR: When this story starts, he’s gone. He’s all the way down there, and there’s no bringing him back. And there’s some great stuff where Talos tries, and that was really interesting to play; like, how close can we get to seeing him coming back, and then he doesn’t, ultimately. Or perhaps he could! If you locked him in a room for long enough, maybe he could, but in this show, it wouldn’t be easy.

Do you think he’s able to see any divide between right and wrong, or is that line then completely obliterated for him? Is there no line he won’t cross to get what he wants?

BEN-ADIR: I think he thinks everyone is a fool for thinking anything other than the way he thinks. Like, “I loved before, and I was such an idiot. Now I understand the truth. Now I understand the truth about how messed up we all are – humans, Skrulls, dogs, cats, kids, anyone.”

Are you the type of actor who can turn it on and off, and leave all this behind the second the camera stops rolling?

BEN-ADIR: Oh yeah, 100%!

That makes me happy for you!

BEN-ADIR: Once you’ve done all of the thinking, it’s just making choices and playing it in the scene.

It’s a dark headspace to be in. I got concerned for you the more that you described this headspace here.

BEN-ADIR: Well, what was dark was looking at all of those cult leaders over the last 20 years, and looking at their behavior and looking at what they were able to do and how convincing they were able to be, but actually what was going on underneath. And there are some crazy documentaries out there, and you go, “Oh, these people are real!” And so yeah, it was kind of just about coming to the decision to go, “Oh, what would happen if he really trusts no one? Not a little bit. Not like kind of half a glimpse. No one.” What if, imaginatively, if you really got your kicks out of – that’s what made it interesting for me.

That makes him a scary character to watch! All of this is also making me think, I think it’s your very first scene in the show, when you’re sitting at the table drinking a cup of tea. Your body language there is just so incredibly striking because you’re just casually leaning back and you’re putting a million sugar cubes in your tea.

BEN-ADIR: I didn’t know that was gonna be the first scene. It’s funny, in the MCU they shift things around sometimes. So I was like, “Oh, that’s interesting!” That wasn’t originally what the first scene was. The first scene was something else that is here and there, so you go, “Oh, that’s an interesting edit move.”

Image via Marvel

I don’t know if you remember your goals in that moment with much specificity at this point because I know you shot a while ago, but is there anything in particular you wanted to convey in terms of the way he is carrying himself in that moment?

BEN-ADIR: Well, I think from an acting point of view, you have to look at who it is that you’re talking to, and then what does that character represent to him? How does he feel about them? So anyone working for him is just an idiot. They could be saying anything to him. With Pagon, I think Gravik feels like he’s the worst kind because he’s ambitious and he wants to be doing what I’m doing, but he doesn’t have the guts to take it. So the level of hatred in that moment towards Killian [Scott]’s character, which I didn’t share with him, I guess was the only point of concentration with me. I was like, “What would happen if you really detest this guy, but you kind of need him around, as well?” It becomes really fun in your mind because you just base everything on, if you trust no one, hate everyone, what level of hate do you feel for this person right now in this moment? And then it’s like, “Yeah, this is a great part. I love this!”

Secret Invasion is available on Disney+ beginning June 21st.