LOS ANGELES – On Monday night, two of history’s greatest filmmakers sat across from each other on stage for a conversation about one of this year’s Best Picture contenders. When those directors just happen to be Steven Spielberg and Martin Scorsese, you sort of have no choice but to sit through all three and half hours of “Killers of the Flower Moon” again to experience it. And while Spielberg seemed to promise he’d return with Scorsese to the Director’s Guild of America theater to speak about both of their careers in the future, this was, potentially a once in a lifetime opportunity.
Note: there are major spoilers about “Killers of The Flower Moon” in this report.
READ MORE: Martin Scorsese thinks people shouldn’t complain about “Killers” long run time: “Give cinema some respect”
Following a packed screening of “Killers” for an audience primarily of AMPAS and all guild members, the pair discussed everything from Lily Gladstone‘s Zoom audition with Leonardo DiCaprio, how Scorsese’s initial meetings with the Osage nation changed his perspective of the project, and Spielberg’s revelation that DiCaprio’s character, Ernest Burkhart, reminded him of Lennie from “Of Mice and Men,” among other topics. Spielberg, however, not only praised Gladstone but DiCaprio and Scorsese’s longtime collaborator, Robert De Niro (Spielberg has never worked with the latter).
“It’s so amazing to see Bobby D and Leo D in this film together. I just realized Bobby D and Leo D,” Spielberg says after the audience laughs. “But this is your sixth collaboration with Leo. And you’re 11th with Bobby, and you’re only three films shy of tying the record with John Ford, who directed John Wayne 14 times. So, you can’t quit yet with Bobby, with Leo six films.”
Even at the age of 80, the sharp-as-a-tack Scorsese doesn’t seem anywhere near retiring, so Ford and Wayne’s record could be in jeopardy. Spielberg did, however, have some fun questions in his pile of notecards including whether a report that De Niro broke a paddle after slapping DiCaprio’s ass was true.
“Yeah. He said it broke because that’s fine,” Scorsese replies as the crowd erupts in laughter.
Speilberg replies, “Was it a heavy accident?”
“No, it’s fine. It should have broken. It should have been flying or something,” Scorsese continues. “We wanted to get the ritual of the Osage. I also wanted to have the ritual of the European and part of that was KKK. It doesn’t always have to be negative, it just happened to be, and also the Masons. And part of that was kind of almost like a frat boy hazing situation where it was a kind of infantile action in a way like treating him like a child…and I did more Masonic stuff, but I couldn’t get it in the film the right way because that was out of nowhere when that happened.”
The “Schindler’s List” and “Catch Me If You Can” director also asked Scorsese how he came up with the film’s epilogue which is conveyed via a Lucky Strike-sponsored “True Crime” Radio show.
“Well, the thing was that from the book, it is the birth of the FBI. Right? And so the FBI needed propaganda,” Scorsese explains. “And so they went on the radio and I grew up listening to the radio before we had TV. So, I listened to ‘Gang Busters’ and shows like that. And I thought, well, wouldn’t it be great if this thing, all this has happened, people have died, tragedy, suffering, anguish and all this. And it became a radio show…and in a sense it became entertainment. And we, again, it’s my own, I’m not accusing anyone, but the point is, it’s my own belief of being complicit in that, enjoying the entertainment. And even this film is entertainment in that sense. You know what I mean? I try to make it as truthful as possible, as honest, I should say, as possible. And therefore, I said we have to end it with one of those radio shows where you see after all this, that’s what the American public was led to think of or believe of the situation. And in the middle of the show, it suddenly becomes an epilogue because if it’s really 1936 in a radio studio, what is he telling you? How could the announcer know that Bill Hale [De Niro’s character] died at the age of 87? Suddenly you make a little trick to move on.”
As for his own surprise cameo in that sequence, Scorsese adds, “And then we had the obit and I didn’t know if I could direct the actor to do that. And having lived with the Osage and everybody there in Oklahoma for so long, I felt I had to try it myself. We’re lucky SAG said [‘O.K.’] or we couldn’t have been talking [Laughs]. I got a little bit of a waiver for that I heard, but there are only 36 seconds. But I said, ‘Listen, let me do it. If it doesn’t work, I know the angle. I can get another actor to do it.’ But as it was doing it, I kind of felt it. And I also felt that in a way, as I say, my own complicity in life and the world as it exists, trying to have compassion for it. Those who are suffering in the world, that’s all.”
Spielberg ended the night by telling his old friend, “You are the master of our medium, and this is your masterpiece.”
We think fans of “Raging Bull,” “Goodfellas,” or “Taxi Driver” might like a word on that coronation, but it’s certainly praise Scorsese humbly accepted. And praise that doesn’t hurt during a super competitive Oscar campaign.
“Killers of the Flower Moon” is now in theaters nationwide