With the latest episode of Ghosts series star Rose McIver was able to check a decade-long dream off her bucket list and set herself up for an even brighter future in television with her directorial debut. “Ghostfellas” sees Sam (McIver) and Jay (Utkarsh Ambudkar) land in hot water with the local mafia thanks to Pete (Richie Moriarty) and Carol (Caroline Aaron), while Hetty (Rebecca Wisocky) and Trevor (Asher Grodman) scheme against the rest of the house to get their own rooms. It’s a hilarious episode peppered with lovely emotional beats and a big win for Sam and Jay. Recently, I sat down with McIver to discuss her turn behind the camera and all of the incredible work that goes into making an episode of Ghosts.
During our wide-ranging conversation, we spoke about how motherhood helped prepare her for directing, all the work done behind the scenes with the close-knit Ghosts crew, and what it was like to direct her co-stars — and herself! McIver also spoke about the rapid pace at which filming moves for an episode of television, the surprises and atmospheric choices she injected into the episode, and getting her co-stars interested in taking their own spin in the director’s chair. Beyond “Ghostfellas” we discussed what to expect for the rest of Season 4, upcoming challenges for Sam and Jay, her dream guest stars for the show, and which other ghosts she wants to see Sam write novels about. You can read our full conversation below.
Directing Was “A Lot Like Conducting” for McIver

“You have all of these incredible instruments, and you want to make sure that the right things crescendo at the right times.”

Image via Bertand Calmeau/CBS

COLLIDER: You are no stranger to television. With five seasons of iZombie and four seasons of Ghosts under your belt. So what made you decide that this was the year to jump behind the camera for Ghosts?
MCIVER: Well, it wasn’t actually a decision that was made this year. I’ve been wanting to direct for about ten years. So it’s really just been a journey to get there. And it’s a competitive position to be aspiring to step into. And I have been working away at that for a very long time, and I’m incredibly grateful that now the opportunity has arisen. And in lots of ways, it’s great that it took quite a long time to get there because I was able to really learn as much as I could in courses, and shadowing, and reading, and directing short films. I feel like the stars aligned at the right moment for it. It was funny to do it the year that I’m also a new mother. So, it’s a little more daunting just from a schedule perspective for that reason. It kind of was like poetic justice that it would come about 1740414556. Directing is a role that you have to juggle, and you have to wear multiple hats, and motherhood is certainly similar in that regard. So it kind of asked my skill set to align for two very different but compatible reasons.
I love that you were able to draw from that and to use those skills from such an unexpected place, but it makes perfect sense.
MCIVER: Yeah, exactly! Exactly, it really does. It is interesting that it’s taken so long for so many women to be in the position of directing when the multitasking side of directing is very innate in many women. I feel lucky that I’ve been able to kind of see that manifest in such different ways in my life right now.
So you guys have a handful of regular directors on Ghosts, so I’m wondering if you turned to any of them for advice while you were preparing, and if so, what’s the best piece of advice that you received, and what’s something that you learned during the process that you would tell a first time director?
MCIVER: So specifically in terms of directing on Ghosts, I had a mentor, Trent O’Donnell, who was our pilot director on Ghosts. He’s also a friend. He’s somebody I’ve known for a long time, and he’s really championed me directing and been so supportive of it. But he’s also a very funny guy, and the most useful piece of advice he gave me was just find many, many ways to ask people to be faster. Whether it’s saying to them, “Can we take the air out of this one?” or, “Can we tighten this up?” or “Let’s just barrel through.” In an episode of television which ends up airing at 21 minutes, and is shot at about 35 minutes, you really do have to find ways to economize screen time. And yeah, he was very helpful in that regard.
I think for a first-time director, the most useful thing for me was being as familiar as I was with the cast and crew and having the shorthand that I did. And obviously, that’s not the case when you’re being brought in as a gun for hire on somebody else’s TV show. So the more time that you can possibly spend observing and watching the workings of an already established set, seeing how people like to communicate – because it’s very different for different people. Some people like a very hands-on, the boss approach. Some people like [it] sparse and direct. I can talk about that ad nauseam, but I do think going and studying the environment that you’re about to work in, even if it’s just for a day or two before you pipe up. I mean, it’s good advice all around, I think, just working on listening and observing.
You mentioned taking the air out, and I think you did that beautifully in this episode. The whole cast is just bouncing off each other. There are certain moments in this episode where it just felt like you guys were singing because it blends so well. Was there a particular moment on set when you felt that energy yourself and you knew you were crafting something great?
MCIVER: Yeah, I mean, I think directing is a lot like conducting, and you have all of these incredible instruments, and you want to make sure that the right things crescendo at the right times and that everybody gets heard, and everybody has their line of the melody that they have to contribute to. It becomes a little bit like turning up and down the volume in different elements of the cast and crew, and making sure that people, again, can be heard when they need to be. Because everybody has the same goal, everybody is trying to make a good piece of television, and we have to be in harmony all together.
I think some of the standout moments for that: I really liked working in the kitchen, in the scene [with] Pete finally confronting Carol, and standing up for himself, and standing up for his relationship with the ghosts, where you’re kind of having this marriage of humor and emotion and people with very different perspectives in a room together. We have the treacle kind of moments of like, Flower and Thorfinn, and their perspective, and just trying to make sure that the rhythm of all of that plays nicely, being able to serve the emotion of the scene without costing the audience the humor. So I think that was a really nice experience. And, watching everybody kind of really dialed in together and supporting the storytelling as a whole.
I think you did an excellent job with that.
The ‘Ghosts’ Crew Helped McIver Feel Right at Home While Directing

“There’s so many people I wish I could do an interview about every single one of them.”

Image via Bertrand Calmeau/CBS

This episode, like pretty much every episode of Ghosts, covers such a huge range of feelings from laugh-out-loud funny to these big emotional moments. How does navigating those peaks and valleys as a director differ from when you’re doing them as an actor?
MCIVER: I guess…if you’re doing your job as an actor, you really are trying to look at it from the inside out, and you’re coming from your character’s perspective. You are aware of what everybody else is contributing, but you’re only tuning your own horn. So, I think that when you are directing from inside a scene, which is what I was doing in that specific moment, it’s its own challenge, because I’m not able to sit outside with a list and write and check things off and make sure I have various beats. I have to be present and singular in my vision in the moment as Sam, and at the same time, be able to be, kind of, making a mental checklist and making sure that I have all of the things I need. That was a skill that is definitely the steepest learning curve, being an actor, directing in your own material that you’re working in. But it gets easier, and it becomes like, yeah, having a second language running through your brain or something. You become more familiar with it. It’s a little bit like jumping in the deep end when you first throw yourself in there.
When you spoke with Perri [Nemiroff] for Collider Ladies Night, I know you said you chose an episode at Woodstone because you know the set inside and out. You know the cast so well. Was there a particular scene that jumped out at you when you got the script that you saw as a challenge, or that you were particularly excited to film?
MCIVER: Filming the sequence in the travel agency was a challenge and exciting because it was outside of our environment. So that was, you know, just not knowing all of the variables that happen when you film in any new location, you’re not sure whether the weather is overcast, and how that light might look through coming through the window all of a sudden, and how your DP wants to respond to that. Or whether what people have come up with in terms of the costumes is going to be harmonious with what is dressed in the environment. And as much as everybody tries to communicate in advance, we were also working on very rapid scheduled television. So it can be a lot of surprises on the day and ironing things out.
And everybody’s so creative. Our crew is so creative, and the lengths that they went to to make us feel like we were back in the ’80s. I found that just remarkable and a nice showcase of all of the creativity and ability across various departments. And when the inevitable kind of surprises did come up, we all have such a good way of communicating. We were able to kind of figure through some easy fixes and make a couple of plan changes. The best advice I was also given was just to do as much preparation as you can so that you have confidence in being flexible on the day, and that you really have thought through various options and ways that it could pan out and how you might respond to those.
You also mentioned just now, and during your episode with Perri, that you felt really supported by the crew. I love how much the whole cast and everyone from the top down on Ghosts is such a family. So I want to give you a moment to maybe sort of sing the praises of some unsung heroes because no show comes together without the hundreds of people whose names we only see in the credits.
MCIVER: Absolutely, thank you for saying that. That’s incredibly meaningful because this crew up here is truly remarkable. I think we’re so lucky – we’re all away from home, we’ve got this in-built community when we arrive on a film set here, a TV set. And in my directorial position, I’ve got to shout out Michel [St-Martin], my DP. He is astonishingly good and kind. He and our first AD, Matt [Jemus] – they are deeply creative people. It’s hard because deeply creative people working under constraints that are very logistical [and] finding room for both of those things is so difficult. They do an amazing job, and they are able, because of the logistics of somebody like a brilliant first AD, he’s able to help execute this vision that is so creative. It’s all very well and good to have all these big ideas, but unless somebody is able to figure out how and when we’re going to make those happen and communicate that to so many different people…I think the first AD on a TV set, an episodic TV set, is the most incredibly vital element. And I got very lucky with him on my episode, and on this show.
And then in terms of the crew, just yesterday, I was laughing [because] Julie [Normandin], my set dresser, she works in the costumes department. She showed up skiing. She skied to work yesterday. I mean, Montrealers are built tough. Like they are able to handle these conditions that everybody’s like, “Oh, you know…” people will come and say, “I’m from New York,” or “I’m from Chicago, and we know winter.” And then you see people skiing to work, and you’re like, “Okay, yeah.” They’re cool, they have a great sense of humor, the crew here. There’s so many people I wish I could do an interview about every single one of them, but those are a couple that stand out.
That makes me so happy.
McIver Knew She Was “In Safe Hands” With the ‘Ghosts’ Cast

“I’m never at risk of having one of them in each other’s light, or them overlapping their dialog.”

Image via Bertrand Calmeau/CBS

You mentioned the production design of the ’80s set at the travel agency. Do you have a favorite detail about that set?
MCIVER: [We] used a couple of elements because it was a functioning travel agency that we filmed in. It was in a strip mall in Quebec, there’s this functioning travel agency. And we used a couple of elements. Our production designer, Zoë [Sakellaropoulo], who is brilliant as well, she’d held on to, you know, some of those hourglasses with the sand that goes through from different locations? But yeah, those were cool, all the multiple clocks with the sand. They felt like great relics of an era – I always think any analog relics like that, people’s old cell phones, that stuff’s brilliant.
Yeah, I loved the adding machine on his desk, because I haven’t seen one of those since I was a kid.
MCIVER: Yeah! And the checkbooks, and all of it.
I loved both of the storylines in this episode, but one of the first things that stood out to me when I knew I was going to be talking with you was the really clever double-layered work of the B-plot with Hetty and Trevor. The story really hinges on you kind of tricking the audience as much as they’re tricking the other characters, and so I was wondering how you went about toeing that line of not giving it away until that last scene?
MCIVER: That’s so kind of you. I mean, so much of it is having actors that really understand the material, too. And who are willing to — even though they know how the episode ends — really commit in the lead-up. And I really love the “Power Fiends” storyline. I think it’s really funny [and] interesting – I love the fist bump, I love seeing Rebecca and Asher together. I think they’ve got such a great dynamic on screen. So, I knew that that would be strong.
Actually, my first day filming, I was fortunate enough to begin with a scene with Sheila and Rebecca, talking on the bed. It’s the flashbacks, the sequence where [they’re] talking on the bed. And they are just such wonderfully technically capable actors, and are so comfortable and confident in muscling a lot of dialog out all at once.
Sheila had that enormous spiel that she ends the episode with the first day we filmed, and she just stepped out of the gate, raring, ready to go. I felt in very safe hands for my first day on set, knowing that they do an immense amount of preparation in a very short time. I’m never at risk of having one of them in each other’s light, or them overlapping their dialog. They are very mindful of their scene partners and are a great pair to start off directing an episode of television with.
Everyone did such a good job in that storyline. It makes it so instantly rewatchable because you want to go back and see how all those things fit together.
MCIVER: Oh, cool! I’m so glad that that resonated with you. That’s nice to hear.
Four years in, you’re very used to working with this ensemble. And jumping behind the camera, as you said, you trust everybody, and you had a very good dynamic. So I’m wondering if new shades of the way you guys create together came out in that shift and if anyone surprised you in that?
MCIVER: I think it was a relief and so deeply appreciated that even though everybody has very different work styles – you know, ten of us with different backgrounds, some of us are improvisers, some have more theatrical backgrounds, some are into film and some are accomplished clowns. I think in my head, I had kind of done some of the mental gymnastics on how to communicate with each different person in any given scene, and that you’re communicating with people who do want different information and in different ways.
And it was just, as I say, a relief. It’s so appreciated that everybody was so focused because maintaining focus on a comedy set is hard. We have such a good time. Everybody plays. It’s where some of the magic comes from. It’s where the genuine rapport between people and the chemistry comes from. But it’s also impossible to make a day and have the scenes you need and be able to showcase that magic unless people can focus and dial in. For me to feel like my cast really stepped up and helped me by being incredibly attuned and dialed-in to any communication we did have, that made my job so easy in comparison.
McIver Wants To Direct Future Episodes of ‘Ghosts’ — and So Do Her Co-Stars

“I can’t speak highly enough about the value for an actor of understanding the immense amount of work that goes into making an episode of television.”

Image via CBS

This is such a for-me question, but as a viewer, I really love looking at blocking when I’m watching something. So I’m curious if there’s a particular arrangement or scene in this episode that you’re particularly proud of?
MCIVER: Yeah! I tried to have quite a few moments of people looming. It’s a mafia episode, it’s “Ghostfellas.” I really wanted to have some moments where it felt like there was a figure – whether it was A story or B story – that it felt like there was this kind of presence that was encroaching upon somebody’s space. And we were able to have that in the library, where Alberta and Isaac are approaching and challenging Hetty and Trevor about their suspicions. We have moments with Anthony in the A story, approaching and challenging Jay in the barn and then subverting that with a laugh. And then we have it again in the final sequence, which I really enjoyed playing that with Sheila. It was such an unlikely character to have Flower looming and intimidating Hetty and Trevor at the end.
I was really pleased that again, there are so many technical elements on the day that you’re having to work around, particularly in television. This isn’t a film. We can’t wait hours and hours for something to be in the right, you know, for the light to be able to be set exactly the way you want it to be, or to be able to fit somebody’s costume, or whatever the technical things might be that can limit blocking. Even within that, to have been able to find some creative moments— and again, that was in collaboration with my wonderful DP Michel, who could see what I was looking for in the episode and see that while I was trying to stay within the box, I was hoping to kind of surprise people a little with some moments. And yeah, that was that was really rewarding.
Now that you’ve done it and the episode’s out, can we expect more Rose-helmed episodes in Season 5?
MCIVER: Yes, I would love to. I am very, very, very keen to. Again, it’s what I had been wanting to do for ten years. So now that I’ve got a taste of being able to direct, it’s certainly an aspiration that I hope to pursue more and more. [I‘m] grateful for any opportunities. I would love to pursue it in our show and also on other shows. That’s some kind of groundwork that I’m starting to plant now. So from your lips to God’s ears.
That’s awesome. Did you give any of your co-stars the directing bug while you were?
MCIVER: Yes. Thank you. Great question. I actually spoke to somebody about this, but nobody’s had the instinct to ask. Yeah, a lot of my costars, some of them [are] wanting to direct and some of them [are] just wanting to shadow, at least initially, to understand more about the process. I can’t speak highly enough about the value for an actor of understanding the immense amount of work that goes into making an episode of television, from people whose names you don’t know. People figuring out the location availability, and doing the accounts, and checking the copyright on the way that a ticket is printed and the just enormous mound of work that has already been built before we arrive on set and we pick up our lines. It’s a real feat. And it’s awesome to be able to connect with those people.
I think it makes actors better. It makes actors more communicative and understanding of why things may look a certain way at the moment that they arrive on set. And I think the same for the post-production process. So, you know, seeing in the edit what works, what doesn’t, how choices that you make do or don’t impact the overall rhythm of a scene. I think that it’s a valuable thing for people to do. We certainly got several of our cast now have been shadowing and expressed interest in that. So, I hope that they’re able to pursue that and down the line, we could see things from them too.
That sounds awesome. You guys remind me a lot of the Star Trek: The Next Generation cast when they all jumped behind the camera in the later seasons of that series. I love seeing the show through the eyes of someone who’s on the show. I just think that’s such a unique perspective.
MCIVER: Oh, that’s so cool. Thank you. You’re such a great interviewer.
Thank you!
Which Other Ghosts’ Lives Might Sam Want To Turn Into Novels?

“I think there’s a huge audience.”

Image via Bertrand Calmeau/CBS

One of the things I love about this show is how good Sam and Jay’s marriage is. In this episode, I feel like they’re such a good team. So I was wondering if you could tease anything about their relationship in the rest of the season?
MCIVER: Yeah, I agree, I think they have just a most remarkable marriage. I mean, she has a husband who has stood by her through something that most people couldn’t ever fathom. And, you know, he is so patient and so endlessly supportive and loyal. But at the same time, I think more and more [the show] asks her to be accountable for her decisions and, you know, Sam’s journey is learning how to balance the needs of all of these other people with her own needs and the needs of her relationship. She’s a chronic people-pleaser and the cost that that has on a marriage is no joke.
So I like that, even though they’re in a really strong and wonderful, supportive marriage, there is room for growth, and there is a journey for them to go on. And that what she is good at, he is not, and vice versa. I think that after four years you start to mine more and more of that. And I think you have to in order to keep things engaging for an audience, and as actors we want to find other sides to things, too. It’s like in a relationship after four years you want to discover new elements to that person. So I think there is some pretty specific stuff that comes up later in the season that I’m not able to talk about yet, unfortunately. But it’s a good question.
We’ve seen Sam grow a lot this season, with little glimpses into her backstory. She just seems so much more confident. I’m wondering if you could pinpoint, either from something that’s aired or something we can look forward to, if you have a favorite Sam moment from the season.
MCIVER: I really enjoyed “Anything Goes,” where she’s able to be in her local community theater production. I think it’s one of the first times we’ve seen Sam do something for herself. And even though, yes, it is helping Alberta to reconcile her own feelings about show business and performing, it’s one of the kind of rare times that Sam has actually prioritized something that’s just joyful and for herself and isn’t logistics and isn’t managerial. I really enjoy those moments. And I think that – speaking of Sam and Jay’s marriage – moments like that are crucial for her in order to feel like a full three-dimensional member of a partnership. And yeah, I really enjoyed the “Anything Goes” [number]. Sam likes the stage, but it’s clearly trepidatious and [she] has an interesting relationship with being the center of attention. I’m curious how that might be unpacked in any future seasons, too.
I love that Sam is turning Isaac’s book into historical fiction, and this also feels like it’s a good potential additional revenue stream for Sam and Jay. If, on top of the B&B, if she were to adapt more of the ghosts’ lives into novels, who do you think would be next?
MCIVER: I think Rebecca. There would definitely be some good women’s fiction that she could write about Hetty. And, I think there’s a huge audience, as we see so many older women reading on planes. Yeah, historical kind of romantic fiction. I think that would be a fascinating one for Hetty to ask Sam to explore in order to work through some of her own repressed experiences, perhaps.
The ‘iZombie’ Cast Is at the Top of McIver’s List of Dream ‘Ghosts’ Guest Stars

“I’ve been angling for that for a long time.”

Image via The CW

Speaking of Sam and Hetty, that’s another of my favorite relationships on the show. With Jay busy with the restaurant, will we see Hetty helping Sam with the B&B in the upcoming episodes?
MCIVER: Yeah! I mean, Sam needs help. This is one of those interesting things now, that Sam and Jay have bitten off more than they can chew, between the restaurant and the hotel. And in a show where so much of it is Sam helping the ghosts, and then these moments of the ghosts turning around and helping her, or offering her advice or helping her breakthrough, this is going to be really leaning into needing the ghosts to help Sam. She can’t spare too much more of her time or energy on them. Hetty certainly has leadership qualities and strong ideas about how things should work. So, she could be a very useful tool to have in Sam’s toolbox, but I guess we have to see how that transpires.
Ghosts has such a lovely Rolodex of guest stars. I’m really, really enjoying seeing more of Bela, and now Carol’s back, and we’ve seen more of Mark this season. So I’m curious if you have any dream guest stars that you would like to see on the show? I keep imagining Catherine O’Hara as a Gilded Age Farnsby.
McIVER: Oh, that’s brilliant! You should work in casting. That’s so good. She’d be brilliant in that. Now that you say that, she’s definitely a choice. I guess the one that’s been top of mind for me is bringing any of my iZombie cast to visit. I would be so excited to have Rahul [Kohli], or Malcolm [Goodwin], or Aly [Michalka], or [Robert] Buckley, or [David] Anders, or Bryce [Hodgson]. They would be fantastic to have in the show. I know that they’re comedic weapons. I know that they are incredible to work with and, yeah, I’ve been angling for that for a long time. So hopefully something comes of it.
But speaking of guest stars, I know you can’t say much, but I know that we’ve got Matt Walsh coming back and, Odessa A’Zion as well. Can you tease anything about their episodes that we can look forward to?
MCIVER: Matt Walsh never brings an easy— I mean. Matt Walsh brings the easiest [energy], right? He’s so wonderful to work with. But, Elias does not bode well for the house in general, as we’ve come to realize. So him returning is not— he’s not the ideal guest at the B&B. And, then yeah, we have Odessa back, who brings such a fresh teenage energy. She’s so funny. We love having her. And we actually have her sister Gideon not playing a related role, but playing a completely separate role in another episode. So, that’s pretty cool.
That’s exciting! Lastly, I know you guys are wrapping, like this week, I think?
MCIVER: Today!
That’s awesome. Congratulations! Is there anything that you can tease about the finale or just what we can look forward to at the end of this season?
MCIVER: Sure! Well, I’ll give you one sentence that I read in the script, that leapt out at me was: ‘We see a who’s who of ghostdom.’ So we get a lot of familiar faces. There’s a lot of people coming out from all different sort of pockets of the house and the property and it’s jam-packed.
Ghosts airs weekly on CBS every Thursday at 8:30 PM ET. Stream previous episodes on Paramount+ and stay tuned at Collider for more.

Ghosts (US)

Release Date

October 7, 2021

Network

CBS

Directors

Christine Gernon, Jaime Eliezer Karas, Katie Locke O’Brien, Nick Wong, Jude Weng, Pete Chatmon, Richie Keen, Alex Hardcastle, Kimmy Gatewood, Matthew A. Cherry, Cortney Carrillo

Writers

Emily Schmidt, John Timothy, Lauren Bridges, Sophia Lear, Guy Endore-Kaiser, Rishi Chitkara, Julia Harter, Skander Halim, Zora Bikangaga

Rose McIver

Samantha Arondekar

Utkarsh Ambudkar

Jay Arondekar