Editor’s note: This interview contains spoilers for the Agatha All Along finale.

The Big Picture

Sasheer Zamata brings depth and nuance to her role as Jennifer Kale, and the final episodes hint at a potential future for her in the MCU.
Zamata discusses her emotional unbinding scene in Episode 8 and dives into her tense dynamic with Agatha.
Zamata reveals how she thinks Jen would react to finding out the truth about the Witches’ Road.

Agatha All Along has taken the world by storm. The follow-up to WandaVision follows Agatha Harkness (Kathryn Hahn) three years after Wanda trapped her as Agnes in Westview, and the spinoff series sees the 350-year-old witch going on a perilous adventure down the Witches’ Road to try and regain her power. But she’s not going at it alone. To make the journey, Agatha must assemble a ragtag coven consisting of divination witch Lilia Calderu (Patti LuPone); protection witch Alice Wu-Gulliver (Ali Ahn); green witch Sharon (Debra Jo Rupp), who then dies and gets replaced by Rio (Aubrey Plaza); a familiar formerly known as Teen (Joe Locke), who then is revealed to be Billy Maximoff; and potions witch Jennifer Kale (Sasheer Zamata).

Formerly a cast member of Saturday Night Live, it’s no surprise that Zamata brings the laughs in her role as the witty, petty, and downright iconic midwife-turned-beauty-guru as she navigates everything from felony charges to the vengeful Salem Seven to muddy underground tunnels with style and sass. But Zamata also brings an impressive amount of depth and nuance to the role, which allows her to show her dramatic chops in addition to her comedic ones. Just like Agatha, there’s a lot of trauma simmering underneath the surface of Jennifer Kale, and if the finale is any indication, if we’re lucky, we just might get to see more of it in the future.

Collider got the chance to speak to Zamata about getting to do stunts and dramatic scenes, her emotional unbinding moment in Episode 8, Jen’s potential future in the MCU, and more.

Sasheer Zamata Breaks Down Agatha and Jen’s Beef in ‘Agatha All Along’

COLLIDER: I love that Jen and Agatha can immediately match each other’s pettiness. In your mind, what is the backstory between them to make them beef that hard? To me, it’s kind of giving ex-girlfriends at times.

ZAMATA: Oh, interesting — that’s juicy. I wonder. I mean, I always assumed that Jen was just wary of Agatha because she’s a witch killer and has been for centuries, and no one really trusts her. I think Jen is pretty righteous as a person and doesn’t even want to be associated with a person like that, and maybe Agatha doesn’t like Jen because she’s so righteous. Because she’s a know-it-all who prides herself on being a do-gooder and healing people and helping people, it might irk her. Because Agatha is a person who doesn’t really help people. She’s kind of like, “Why are you wasting your skill doing that?” I think it’s kind of a personality mismatch more than something happened.

That does make a lot of sense. I have to say, their fighting about the ballad is so funny in retrospect. I want to know what your reaction was when you read this wild twist of an ending.

It is interesting because we find out that the ballad is fake — it’s not a true story — and here they are arguing about it. But it does seem like this thing that Agatha and her son created really took a life of its own. I think it probably evolved and shifted over the years to the point where the community was creating the ballad — the witches were creating the lore around it. And Agatha is kind of going along with it because she’s like, “Whatever. You can believe whatever you want as long as you give me your power.”

Which honestly is also kind of like this show. The show is also taking a life of its own, and people are coming up with all these theories where I’m like, “Whoa, is that what that means?” [Laughs] And I love it. And so it is funny that the version that Jen knows of the ballad is different from the one that Agatha knows, but Agatha doesn’t care. Once this song wasn’t a representation of her love between her and her son, I don’t think she was really connected to it as much as she was in the beginning. The lyrics were iffy probably the whole time for her.

That’s so true. It’s just the spirit of it — pun intended — after that. What do you think Jen’s reaction would be to finding out that it wasn’t real? I really wish we would have gotten to see that.

Gosh, I know! She just leaves. She just leaves the Road, and she’s like, “I’m out of here.” I think she would be furious if she found out that Teen, of all people, put everybody through hell. Like, we didn’t have to do that? But maybe she would find some sort of solace in it because she did get what she wanted. She did do the Road to get her power back, and then she got it back, so in a way, it kind of was worth it. She did exactly what you’re supposed to do when you do the Road. No one else has done the Road because the Road actually doesn’t exist — or at least the Road that we see we saw. But yeah, I think she’d be pissed but ultimately would probably find it worth it to get her power back.

She would definitely be full-naming Teenager again.

Yeah! Ugh, Teenager.

Sasheer Zamata Dives Into Her Emotional Unbinding Scene in ‘Agatha All Along’ Episode 8
Image via Disney+

I love that line so much. I know that you said you acted a lot with chocolate pudding because that’s what the mud was made out of, which is so interesting. In this recent episode, you also act in a body bag. I have to know, was that real? And was that scary? Because that would have freaked me out, I think.

We were in a body bag, but thankfully, not for long — we had to break out of it pretty quickly. But yeah, it was weird, and then we had to be slid out of the little morgue-style compartments. You know, that’s the show! That’s the show. They’re just gonna throw you in mud, douse you in water, put you next to fire, put you in a body bag, but it was so fun. I was doing something I’ve never done before on a show, and it was really cool to be able to like live in it. It really informed all of our acting choices because we really were doing those things.

I read that the swords were real, too, that were like falling. That’s crazy.

Yeah. But they also had an amazing safety team that explained every single detail to us, so I felt very safe and taken care of. And also, everyone knew what was happening with the effects because they really wanted things to be as real as possible, so you do need people who know what they’re doing.

The scene where Jen does the unbinding ritual and gets her powers back is so beautiful. I was crying on my couch. Can you talk a little bit about filming that scene? It felt like it was a real catharsis, and you just really went there.

Yeah, it was really wild. The director, Gandja Monteiro, created such an incubated space. There was hardly anyone on set, and they really let me dive into that moment. And Kathryn was just so giving — it’s actually starting to make me tear up just thinking about it. She’s such a giving scene partner and felt so connected to the character and the rawness of realizing that the reason I don’t have my power — and haven’t had my power — was because of this woman who’s been with me this whole time.

It was really moving, day of, to shoot that. We shot it a few times, and it felt like something was really released in that moment. To be able to finally get your power after 100 years, I would imagine, feels like a lot. It feels like a lot. It feels like you’re rejoicing, but you’re also so sad because you haven’t [had it]. It’s like getting a friend back. You’re like, “Oh, there you are. There you are. I’ve been missing you this whole time.” It was cool to do because I have rarely been able to access that part of myself while performing, and I felt so lucky to be able to do that.

Well, I hope we get to see you do more of that because it really blew me away.

Sasheer Zamata on ‘Agatha All Along’s Sexuality and Sisterhood
Image via Disney+

Another aspect of Jen’s character that I like is that she is very subtly queer. The show is just so queer all around, obviously with Rio and Agatha and Billy and Eddie, but we also do get Jen making these little comments. As a queer girl myself, I found that so authentically done and refreshing. Can you talk about that aspect of her character and the way that shows up in this?

Jennifer Kale, in the comics, is bisexual. I don’t know how much they wanted to show that in the show, but yeah, it was fun to have little asides where that was a little sneak peek into that. But also, what I like about this show is it’s not heavy-handed, as far as the romance. There is romance — or there has been romance in the past, and you’re not sure if it’s still there — but this is not a love story. This is actually a story about sisterhood and a coven and a team working together, and I like that so much. But I also like that we get to still learn about everyone’s identity in the show. I think it’s very cool to be able to play a queer character in the MCU because you would like for these characters to kind of represent the world and the audience, so if people can watch it and relate to these characters in some sort of way, I think that’s really cool.

Definitely. You talked about sisterhood, and I really loved the little crumbs we got between Jen and Alice, like when she gives her the oil that smells nice, which is so sweet. Can talk about how you view that dynamic? I feel like those two are a pair in a lot of ways, at the beginning of the series at least.

Yeah, maybe Jen could really relate to Alice’s hard exterior. They both are kind of closed off and really inward, so maybe she saw some sort of camaraderie there. It kind of makes the loss even sadder when you start realizing these people are starting to become friends and actually like each other. When they die, it’s even more tragic because you were rooting for everyone to get along and actually remain friends. Ali Ahn is actually my friend now through the show, and I loved working with her so much. She’s so, so talented, and watching her perform — in person and on-screen — made me tear up every time. This really is a dream team of people. I think it shows through the screen how much we actually enjoyed working together.

100%. That leads really well into my next question, which is the fact that we got a lot of Jen and Lilia interaction in Episode 7. I was so happy to see that. The moment when Lilia tells her, “You’re my sister in the craft,” which makes Jen decide to finish the Road, is so beautiful. Can you break down what you thought was going through her mind at that moment? You could tell it really registered for her.

I think it was really hard for Jen to decide to choose someone else. She had been choosing herself for so long — especially through this journey on the Road, she’s trying to leave first, trying to save herself. She’s very self-serving. And she finally sees an exit off the Road like, “Oh my gosh, there’s another option.” Having Lilia say, “I need you to stay. I need you to go through this journey with me for the coven”? That’s a huge decision because she’s never been asked to do that. She’s been feeling outside of the witch community for so long, and she’s like, “Wait, does someone actually need me now?” Because she hasn’t felt that call in the centuries. I think what’s going through her head is, “Okay, do I actually go through this hell more even though I want to leave so bad?” But yeah, we’re sisters and craft, and I have to answer the call.

Sasheer Zamata Talks Jen’s Past — and Her Potential Future After ‘Agatha All Along’
Image via Disney+

You’ve talked in other interviews about how Jen became disillusioned with helping people over time. I’m curious how you think she actually landed in the beauty space of all things because I really love that choice.

I think, in a way, she does get a kick out of feeling like…well, a high priestess or someone who someone can look to for help or ideology. Being a self-care guru or someone who people pine over where they’re like, “Oh my god, your skin is so beautiful Oh my god, you know the way.” She loves that. She wants people to go to her because she is very smart and knowledgeable, and I think that’s what she prides herself on. In a way, this is how she can use her knowledge of science and chemistry to create these concoctions and then also have people look to her for advice. But in the end, it’s still not fulfilling because it’s not healing. People realize she’s a snake oil salesman at this point. You can tell that the love of helping people has waned because she believes she can’t anymore since she doesn’t have her magic.

The probiotic candles are such a hilarious product that I fear I would probably try at least once. I would be so curious about them. I know this props department is so detail-oriented — were there any other wild products in her shop that you remember akin to the probiotic candles?

There were so many products, but I can’t remember. I’m sure they were just normal eye creams and stuff like that. I think the candles were probably the wildest choice that she made. She really took a big swing on that. [Laughs]

She really did. I loved it. I also really loved seeing the video that they released of everyone reacting to the Road for the first time. The props on set are amazing, from the store to the Road itself. I’m curious if you happened to steal any souvenirs from the set.

I do still have that candle. I have my potion bottle. That might be it, actually. But yeah, those are the things that I held dear the most. The candle scene was my first scene on set — my first day of work — and the potion bottle I had through the whole journey.

I know Joe Locke has talked a lot about his audition scenes. I’d be curious to know which scenes you auditioned with for this.

I did have the candle scene, and then I had my unbinding scene, which was wild because I did not know what was happening. I didn’t get a full script, so I had no idea what was happening in the scene — I just knew I was trying to get something back, but it was unclear.

Whoa!

Yeah, but Jac Schaeffer was in the audition with me and really helped guide me and figure out the emotions that were needed for the scene. I figured something out! [Laugh] But then, eventually, when I read the script, I was like, “Oh wow — that’s what’s happened? This is nuts.”

Wow, that is wild. When you’re not wearing chocolate pudding and in body bags, you do get to wear some really great outfits. I’m curious if you had a favorite that you got to put on.

I really did love our ‘70s look. My Donna Summer-inspired outfit was so fun. That fluffy wig with the bangs and the flower crown and my boots — it was just so cool. I love that whole look.

That one was so good. It definitely feels like we’re hinting that we might see Jen again — I mean, she is the final girl, and she’s the path ahead. Where would you like to see her go in the future if we see her again?

I don’t know. She can go anywhere! I would love to see her go anywhere. I’d love to see more of her backstory in the past. I would love to see her future. Is she gonna find a new coven — a new team of people to work with? Is she gonna rededicate her life to healing people? I would love to see where we go after this — it was left so open-ended. I love playing this character so, so much, and I think people really love seeing the arc and seeing her actually get what she came for. I would love for her to see her actually use the power that she regained.

I did want to also touch briefly on the fact that the show ties into real history so much, both with your character being a root worker and a midwife and the dark history of obstetrics. I’m curious about what research you did into that side of things because I felt like it was so authentically communicated. I feel like I learned something from the show, which is always a little bonus!

Yeah, I did, too. It’s so cool to be a part of a show where the people working on the show are also nerds about witch culture. We were just swapping articles and books and readings that we were doing. I read a book about witches and midwifery and how, for so long, women who were midwives — and a lot of women of color — got labeled as witches in order to remove them from the medical field so that people could rely on men and give them the money, and how many complications that created because they didn’t have the knowledge that was passed down generation to generation from these women.

It was just so fascinating, and I’m so glad we got to touch on it — even just a little bit — in the show because that is a huge part of history at large but also witch history. I hope we do see more of that stuff, but yeah, the people who created the show really wanted to make this as authentic as possible and use so many things from real life in the show. It might seem fantastical or wild, but these are real stories, actually. This is actually a part of history.

My last question for you is that I know you’ve talked a lot about how you were excited to dive into more drama in the show in addition to, obviously, the great comedy that’s in it. Is there another genre that you feel like you haven’t really gotten to play in that you would love to get to tackle next?

Hm. I like most genres, and I feel like I’ve done almost all of them. I’ve done romantic comedies. I’ve done thriller and horror stuff. This is actually my second time being a final girl, which is really cool. I’ve done so many comedies. I think maybe big, flashy action stuff — I do love wild, nonsensical action things. Of course, there was so much action already in Agatha, but getting a taste of stunts and learning choreography for things, I’m like, “I like this.” I think I would want to do more of it.

Oh my gosh. I would love to see you, like, jump out of a plane or something.

Yeah, absolutely! I’m down for it.

Agatha All Along is available to stream on Disney+.

Agatha Harkness, following the events of “WandaVision,” embarks on a quest to reclaim her lost powers. Teaming up with unlikely allies, including the son of her former enemy, she faces new mystical threats while navigating a complex world of magic and intrigue.Release Date September 18, 2024 Cast Kathryn Hahn , Joe Locke , Sasheer Zamata , Ali Ahn , Okwui Okpokwasili , Debra Jo Rupp , Patti LuPone , Aubrey Plaza , David Payton , Emma Caulfield Ford , David Lengel , Asif Ali , Amos Glick , Elaine Valdes , Paria Akbarshahi , Chau Naumova , Bethany Curry , Athena Perample , Alicia Vela-Bailey , Britta Grant , Marina Mazepa Creator(s) Jac Schaeffer Expand

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