This interview contains spoilers for the Season 4 finale of Star Trek: Lower Decks.

The Big Picture

Star Trek: Lower Decks Season 4 concludes with an epic finale that features guest stars and daring stunts, while also delving into Mariner’s personal journey. Series creator Mike McMahan discusses the exciting cameos, Easter eggs, and character arcs in a conversation about the Season 4 finale. Tendi will still be a part of the show in Season 5, and viewers can expect a more joyful Mariner in the upcoming season.

Star Trek: Lower Decks Season 4 just warped to an end with an epic finale featuring guest stars, daring stunts, and even Boimler (Jack Quaid) in the captain’s chair. The finale saw Mariner (Tawny Newsome) forced to face her grief over Sito Jaxa (Shannon Fill) head-on with the return of the dastardly Nick Locarno (Robert Duncan McNeil). In a heart-pounding episode that gives Star Trek’s dramatic shows a run for their money, the crew of the Cerritos saved the day, finally getting to be the heroes we’ve always known them to be.

To unpack the Season 4 finale I sat down with series creator Mike McMahan for an exciting conversation about Easter eggs, character arcs, and more. During our conversation, McMahan spoke about those epic cameos from Duncan McNiel, Wil Wheaton, and Fill, and broke down some key Easter eggs about the USS Pasarro — the ship Mariner hi-jacks in the finale. He also told me that we won’t be losing Tendi (Noël Wells) despite her departure from the Cerritos, and we can expect to see a much more joyful Mariner in Season 5. You can read our full conversation below.

COLLIDER: So you had some amazing cameos for the finale. Not only is Robert Duncan McNeill back, but you got Shannon [Fill] and Wil [Wheaton] for that wonderful little flashback at the beginning. I think that the Lower Decks episode of TNG is one of my favorites, and so I was really excited to see Sito as the linchpin for Mariner’s arc in this finale. What made you want to link Sito and Locarno to Mariner and weave those into her backstory?

MIKE MCMAHAN: I mean, I love Locarno being our Khan. I love that Star Trek can have episodic characters that then loom large in a more cinematic way later on. This was just the animation version of what they did with [Star Trek II:] The Wrath of Khan. What was it, 35 years? I mean, it’s been a long time. I think ‘95 was when the episode aired. But, you know, part of it is that I wanted to firmly plant it in this timeline. We’d already seen Tom Paris go through a redemption arc, and I wanted to see what was the other way. And having Robbie come back and reprise Locarno was a cool way to do that that I hadn’t seen before.

Then, I love that Lower Decks episode. It’s so tragic when we lose Sito after her journey, and Shannon plays her so perfectly, and I know that Tawny feels the same way. And having Mariner having been affected by something that I felt was tragic and that Tawny felt was tragic that worked in the timeline just felt like something worthy of taking a stab at. It meant the world to me, getting to work with Shannon meant the world to me, and I know that it was important to me, but I didn’t know if it was gonna work for all of you out in the world, but Lower Decks, sometimes it just is, “This is my instinct. This is what I wanna do. It feels right. It feels like a beautiful part of the franchise that we can do this. Let’s do it even though it’s a little scary,” and I’m really happy that we did.

Image via Paramount

I love the way it played out. Speaking of those little Easter eggs and things, I really loved seeing the list of people that they were looking for. How did you pick Seven, Beverly, and Thomas Riker?

MCMAHAN: I tried to pick people that canonically were out in the galaxy, in the quadrant, that would hopefully distract the audience from Locarno. Because I wanted to bring up Locarno at the beginning of that episode, have everybody be distracted, and then have them show up at the very end. So I was, like, throwing these big names at people – Seven of Nine! You know? [Laughs] Beverly Crusher! Thomas Riker is still around, he got out of that Cardassian prison! You know what I mean? Then you have no time to be like, “Nick Locarno?!?” You know what I mean? So, it was people that I kind of made sure were out there kicking around, and that it fit into what Picard was doing, but also, it was my Batman smoke pellet to hopefully not have you guys notice the sleight of hand we were doing in that episode.

I thought that was great. As you were saying, it establishes Lower Decks more in this timeline, even, and weaves it into stuff that hasn’t even happened in the timeline yet, so it’s really cool.

MCMAHAN: Yeah, that’s what we were going for, and that they’re on a planet with, like, Mudd. I tried to tie him to the idea that, like, there are rogues in Star Trek and have been before, from, you know, Harry Mudd and even all the way to “The Outrageous Okona,” you know what I mean? Trying to fit Nick into that stuff.

I’ve been saying all season that Lower Decks is like the most Star Trek, and I feel like this episode, in particular, really leans into that. It could be an episode in any of the Star Trek series, and I mean that as a huge compliment. So, how do you go about balancing those references to the greater universe and then creating such a unique experience?

MCMAHAN: It’s just a lot of work. That’s our goal: the real trick to Lower Decks is it has to be a fun, funny, character-driven original animated comedy that has sci-fi jokes, but also is about being in your 20s and self-discovery while simultaneously being a heartfelt [and] sticking-to-the-parameters-that-we-knew-from-Star-Trek-before legitimate Star Trek show. And sometimes we bend rules. Occasionally, we break rules. But my goal was always, at the very beginning of the show, like I told the writer of Season 1, I was like, “Look, I love the animated series, the original, [but] there’s an argument about whether or not anybody ever needs to watch it.” Like, people leave it off of lists, and I was like, “If we do our job well, Lower Decks would just have to be brought up when people are talking about their favorite Star Trek’s, or just Star Trek’s that existed at all.” I didn’t even go for, like, “Lower Decks might be one of your favorites.” I just didn’t want this to be a thing that was made and then forgotten, and then it’s like on a list of apocrypha where you’re like, “You know what they did once? This stupid thing!” You know what I mean?

So, sincerely doing a Star Trek where the stakes of the world are the same stakes that you see affecting the dramatic shows and the characters in those, and then doing comedy and mixing that all together, that’s the real joy and surprise of Lower Decks to me. And every time we pull that off, I’m really, really proud.

Image via Paramount+

Can you talk a little bit about acting Captain Bradward Boimler? I loved him just yeeting the battleship at the shield. I actually yelled, “Riker would be so proud of you,” when I was watching it.

MCMAHAN: [Laughs] I love that moment. I wanted to give that moment to Boimler because he’s really earned it. Really, it’s not about his capability of sitting in that chair. It’s the trust that he’s built across four seasons with the bridge crew, that they would know that he could handle that even though there’s literally higher-ranking people around him. And also, it wasn’t a final step in his journey for me because being a captain isn’t about sitting in a chair or being in the middle of an action sequence. Being a captain means a lot of things. And I think in life, you have these aspirations. We all do, right? “If I can only get this, I’d be happy, or I’d know what’s going on.” And then every time you reach those milestones, you’re learning that there’s all this other stuff that you didn’t even know about, right?

So now, Boimler’s been there and he’s done it and he’s a lieutenant junior grade, and so he goes forward now into the Season 5 with, that’s a thing that he’s checked off; what else do you need before you can become a captain? So you still get Boimler, it’s just that, “I need to be in the captain’s chair, but I don’t want to be on the Titan and do full action all the time.” Like, that burden has been removed, and he can move forward and grow even more.

We also sort of got to see Tendi take on a leadership role, negotiating with her sister and leading the charge there, but then we had to lose her. So, what went into the decision to have Tendi leave, and how long do you think it’ll be before we get her back?

MCMAHAN: You’ll be seeing a lot of Tendi in Season 5. We are not losing Tendi.

Excellent.

MCMAHAN: I will say what I got really excited by was, I wanted there to be a bittersweet moment at the end of the season as Tendi is leaving, but then in that final piece, that the music and her determination is saying that she’s not being sent off, that she’s embracing it. Then, for the first time, instead of being like, “Wait, who am I? Am I this Orion assassin queen, or am I a Starfleet scientist?” The reason I carry that music cue through the credits is, “No. No, I’m gonna be Tendi,” like, “I’m not gonna be either of those things. I’m gonna be something new called D’Vana Tendi, and I’m gonna embrace it, and I’m gonna go kick its ass.” And that Tendi I really like writing.

I love that we have T’Lyn decide to stay at the end of the season, as well. Can you tease anything about what we can expect from her in Season 5?

MCMAHAN: There’s some really, really fun, funny stuff for her in Season 5. I don’t want to give away too– How can I say this? T’Lyn’s story in Season 5 involves her and another character in an interesting way, and you see T’lyn embrace science and Starfleet more than I think people anticipate.

Excellent. I’m excited to learn more about that! So, the ship that Mariner takes when she, like, goes rogue — the USS Passaro — it looks a bit like a cross between the Enterprise-D style and a TOS-era ship. How did you go about designing it, and are there any Easter eggs in that ship?

MCMAHAN: Yeah. So that’s actually a new class called the Saberrunner. It’s based on the Steamrunner, but it’s smaller. Sorry, the Steamrunner class is the original class. This is like a less fancy version of it, the Saberrunner. Here are three Easter eggs about the Saberrunner: the first one is, it’s not even done getting its paint job on the hull yet. Like, she’s stealing it before they even got it. And part of me is like, “Did he buy it from the Orions that had that kind of like ship graveyard that we saw the other Starfleet ship in?” You know, after the Dominion War, I think they’re still finding out there are ships that are kind of out of the quadrant they’re looking for.

Then, the next thing is we named the ship after Fabio Passaro, who did the 3D modeling for Eaglemoss, the company that made all those great renditions of the ships. So Eaglemoss helps us out when we need computer models of the ships for the show. We’ll often get it from them to make sure they’re as accurate as possible, and Fabio was the one that we were really using his bills and stuff. And then Fabio actually passed away in the middle of working on Lower Decks, and, I believe, some of the other Trek shows. So, Ben Robinson from Eaglemoss reached out to us and asked if we would honor him in the show, and I was like, “Absolutely. He should have a ship.” Like, he would build ships in 3D for us, so his name should be on a ship. And I was really happy to do that for his family because it was quite a loss.

But yeah, that’s those are the two big ones, and then a smaller one is, I just love that we got a seatbelt. [Laughs] A seatbelt on a Starfleet ship. Like, I just think that’s very funny to me.

Image via Paramount+

That’s beautiful. What from Season 4 are you the most proud of now that it’s wrapped?

MCMAHAN: I mean, I think everybody knows it’s the Twain-ing. We figured out how anytime you’re in an argument with anybody, you just have to both dress up like Samuel Clemens, and suddenly it’s gonna solve it. No, I don’t know. It’s hard to pick any one moment because I have favorite jokes, I have favorite, you know…I worked on that scene with Mariner and Bach the Klingon in that outcropping, that, like, lava tube. I worked on that scene for like a year. Like, I was just obsessed with it, and I’m really happy with how it turned out. But, I don’t know. It’s hard to pick in one moment because I love this show. I love the performances. I love the directing. I love the character design. I love the music. It’s hard to pick because any one day it changes. But my jokey answer is definitely Twain-ing.

Lastly, you’ve already been renewed for Season 5. Thank goodness.

MCMAHAN: Yeah!

Is there anything else you want to tease to hold us over until the show comes back? Because it is going to be an excruciating wait.

MCMAHAN: We’ve been working away on Season 5. Season 5, Mariner is much more joyful. She’s still Mariner; she’s still chaotic. She’s still hilarious, but she isn’t weighed down by the weight of not having spoken about Sito. And you know, it’s not a surprise Season 5 is incredibly Star Trek. A couple of fun legacy characters will show up, and gosh…I always want to keep surprising everybody, so I would just say, know that you’re gonna get some great Orion stuff; you’re gonna get some great Tendi stuff; everything you like about Lower Decks, you’re still gonna get, just more of it in ways that you haven’t seen before and it’s really fun.

Star Trek: Lower Decks Seasons 1-4 are available to stream on Paramount+.

Watch on Paramount+

Image via CBS All Access Star Trek: Lower Decks Behind every great captain, is a crew keeping the ship from falling to pieces. These are the hilarious stories of the U.S.S. Cerritos. Release Date November 30, 2018 Cast dawnn lewis, Gillian Vigman, Jerry O’Connell, Fred Tatasciore, Tawny Newsome, Jack Quaid, Noel Wells, Eugene Cordero Genres Animation, Comedy, Sci-Fi Seasons 4 Franchise Star Trek Streaming Sevice Paramount+ Showrunner Mike McMahan